VW solid-state battery retains 95% capacity over 1,000 charge cycles in lab testing

It will be a good decade to come, for veteran mechanics of ICE based vehicles. With more & more US automakers ditching their lower-cost cars for more expensive SUV skewed platforms, useless hybrids and full-on EVs - the recycling & repair of the pre-battery era fleet will keep mechanics flush with money. Ford killed off the Focus and Fiesta quick! Neither of the two other BIG 3 automakers offer a small car anymore as well - in the traditional sense.

Solid state is the panacea that EVs need to become viable alternatives. It's great to hear this is happening, now the question is can VW actually mass produce the things?

GeforcerFX said:

Nothing mentioned the energy density so unless its a big improvement this is kinda pointless since lithium iron phosphate can already do 2,000+ cycles in a lifetime.

Click to expand...

Well, Solid State batteries as a medium are far denser then normal cell based lithium batteries are. Solid State batteries are also less vulnerable to temperature extremes causing range loss, and can charge much faster (in theory) as you are charging the entire "cell" at once.

yRaz said:

That's great, now can we do what is arguably more important and make EVs look and function more like regular vehicles? Take away touch screen buttons, DRM, massive screens in the center console and "the future" look that every EV insists on having.

If you want people to buy more EVs manufacturers should start by making it impossible to tell an EV from an ICE vehicle.

Click to expand...

Ford lightning? Silverado EV?

In ICE the big screen look is in, its not exclusive to EVs.

Theinsanegamer said:

Ford lightning? Silverado EV?

In ICE the big screen look is in, its not exclusive to EVs.

Click to expand...

2 out of TONS of EVs. I also don't think the big screen look is "in". it is the most complained about feature I see in reviews. if I can't text while I drive they shouldnt be literally putting TVs in cars.

Considering the quality of software, packaging, efficiency, build quality, cooling, heating etc. displayed by VW EV vehicles, I came to a conclusion the battery tech is the least of their problems.
Not to mention, they will, most likely, licence some Chinese company that will have better batteries much more quickly and much more cheaply.

This company has existed for a decade and has never released anything commercially.

I don't believe in anything until I see it being mass produced and tested by third parties.

WhiteLeaff said:

This company has existed for a decade and has never released anything commercially.

I don't believe in anything until I see it being mass produced and tested by third parties.

Click to expand...

It's probably an RnD company that just develops and sells patents.

GeforcerFX said:

Nothing mentioned the energy density so unless its a big improvement this is kinda pointless since lithium iron phosphate can already do 2,000+ cycles in a lifetime.

Click to expand...

Not with <5% degradation though. That's the key point.

Interesting technology, but I’m curious how it functions in frigid weather, as is common in the Midwest during the winter.

I still think plug-in hybrid vehicles are the best bridge solution for now - you get the EV benefits for short commutes, but the range for long trips. It also gives the technology time to mature and disseminate naturally rather than via government mandates (what could go wrong?).

yRaz said:

That's great, now can we do what is arguably more important and make EVs look and function more like regular vehicles? Take away touch screen buttons, DRM, massive screens in the center console and "the future" look that every EV insists on having.

If you want people to buy more EVs manufacturers should start by making it impossible to tell an EV from an ICE vehicle.

Click to expand...

Amen. I keep saying it too. People want to have a generic vehicle, they absolutely don't want to stand out from the crowd

LetTheWookieWin said:

Interesting technology, but I’m curious how it functions in frigid weather, as is common in the Midwest during the winter.

I still think plug-in hybrid vehicles are the best bridge solution for now - you get the EV benefits for short commutes, but the range for long trips. It also gives the technology time to mature and disseminate naturally rather than via government mandates (what could go wrong?).

Click to expand...

In theory, solid state batteries should tolerate frigid weather better then lithium cell batteries, since there is no gel to freeze, hence the "solid state" name. They'll still lose range, but not as badly, and could be mitigated entirely with a proper thermal management system.

We'll have to wait for a mass production model to see how it rolls out. If toyota's solid state corolla hitting over 700 miles is any indication, range anxiety would be totally null and void.

LetTheWookieWin said:

Interesting technology, but I’m curious how it functions in frigid weather, as is common in the Midwest during the winter.

Click to expand...

"For instance, a study by a team of researchers at the University of Michigan found that certain types of solid-state batteries can operate efficiently at extremely low temperatures, down to -60 degrees Celsius. This is a significant improvement over traditional lithium-ion batteries, which typically start to struggle at around -20 degrees Celsius"

Theinsanegamer said:

We'll have to wait for a mass production model to see how it rolls out. If toyota's solid state corolla hitting over 700 miles is any indication, range anxiety would be totally null and void.

Click to expand...

Except when they do need charged, there has to be better access to more charging spots.

The article mentions that, in future, current EV batteries could be replaced by solid state batteries. It seems a nice idea but this seems unlikely unless there is some move to standardise battery sizes or at least the segments that go into a large battery pack. I guess that would have to include thermal management and electrical connections.

It's a shame there wasn't some table in the article to show the differences between the different battery technologies perhaps showing degradation, energy density, charge times, cost, use of rare metals. Maybe even a column for petrol.

It would be interesting to have another article showing all the new battery technologies that TS has reported on and what actually became of them all.

scavengerspc said:

Except when they do need charged, there has to be better access to more charging spots.

Click to expand...

The *simple* solution is to mandate every existing refueling station to have at least one fast-charging spot. Then as the electric fleet expands, expand the requirement to two, and so on. The idea is to allow the re-use of the existing recharging infrastructure (which to be perfectly honest, if we don't do will put a lot of people out of work).

The more brute force approach would be to have the Federal Government directly build charging stations along the highway system (rather then contracting private business to do it, which *never* ends up being cost effective).

scavengerspc said:

"For instance, a study by a team of researchers at the University of Michigan found that certain types of solid-state batteries can operate efficiently at extremely low temperatures, down to -60 degrees Celsius. This is a significant improvement over traditional lithium-ion batteries, which typically start to struggle at around -20 degrees Celsius"

How do solid-state batteries perform in cold temperatures?

How do solid-state batteries perform in cold temperatures? TS2 SPACE News

ts2.pl

Except when they do need charged, there has to be better access to more charging spots.

Click to expand...

With a 700+ mile range, the demand for public charging would be vastly decreased. Charging at home allows a long enough period of time on level 2 charging to handle the larger capacity. And how many people are going 700 miles a day? Even on roadtrips, 700 miles in one go is pushing it.

more importantly, that is over double what electric sedans do today.

Still no word on how we're going to charge all these EVs. The current system of burning fossil fuels at a significant remove from the vehicle is incredibly inefficient and causing more damage to the climate than ICEs.

Badvok said:

The current system of burning fossil fuels at a significant remove from the vehicle is incredibly inefficient and causing more damage to the climate than ICEs.

Click to expand...

Incorrect. Power plants are more efficient than ICE engines. They also pollute less.

Crabjuice said:

Incorrect. Power plants are more efficient than ICE engines. They also pollute less.

Click to expand...

He's right, big economies still generate power by burning coal; you need to change this first. The extraction of lithium, cobalt, etc. also degrades the environment.

I see that companies should have focused on developing sodium batteries years ago.

Prediction, we won't see these magic batteries within the next 5 years.

Crabjuice said:

Incorrect. Power plants are more efficient than ICE engines. They also pollute less.

Click to expand...

Furthermore, they can and will produce power at night. It is not a coincidence
a lot of companies are looking for a way to store large amount of power in a cheap storage.
Every minute that power is not needed, it could be stored somewhere to be used later.
Being able to storage energy is probably as big as all these new ways to make power.

Crabjuice said:

Incorrect. Power plants are more efficient than ICE engines. They also pollute less.

Click to expand...

Incorrect - back at you Power plants don't convert fossil fuels directly into mechanical energy like an ICE. The power delivery chain for a EV is: Power Plant burns fuel = heat energy -> turbine = mechanical energy -> dynamo -> grid transmission -> charge battery, then discharge battery = mechanical energy. Every step has losses that amount to far more than those in an ICE.

1. Solid state batteries
2. Cheap, repairable parts
3. Repairable BATTERY cells
4. Cheaper cars
5. Right to repair.
And I'm sold.Until then, NO WAY.

The battery is what's holding EVs back right now. We need this kind of tech to be commercially viable sooner than later.